Re: Russ Whitney Success Story? My 20 questions and 2 cents worth ....

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Posted by Reva on March 19, 1999 at 18:21:40:

In Reply to: Russ Whitney Success Story? My 20 questions and 2 cents worth .... posted by Christine Baker on March 18, 1999 at 00:51:10:

Wow, Christine! You were really hard on us. You know, my husband and I submitted a written offer on a house this week. Nothing we did was unethical, immoral, illegal, undisclosed, we did not attempt to take advantage of anybody or to cheat anyone. Nor do I feel that we will lose out on deals without having the above qualities. Our goal as far as making money is this: to be debt free (not counting income producing assets), to be able to care for our family, and to be able to help others. There is a family at our church who will be leaving to go to a third world country as missionairies soon. How great it would be to sell a house that we had worked on and be able to send extra money to help them. Thats what its all about anyway. Is helping each other and being fair to others. The Russ Whitney course does not teach any of the requirements you stated for success. What the course taught me is that I can do whatever I set my mind to. I went into that seminar thinking of all the things I couldn't do and came out realizing just how much I can do. I was taught that it is important to be honest and fair. I discovered this message board prior to attending the three day training camp. I read all the messages about Russ Whitney. I was trying hard to learn what I was getting myself into. We had already paid to go. But nothing I read here even came close to what all I learned. It was, in my opinion, worth everything we spent to go. I don't get as much time nowadays to browse the net like I used to. But I will come back with updates from time to time as we progress in our venture of real estate investing. And by the way, its alot of fun and we are having a blast.

: This is my response to the Whitney "success story" by Bernie and Reva Stanley's posting, included at the end.

: Bernie,

: Of course it would be best if I attended Whitney's seminar myself to see what's to it. But as I'm not about to waste several thousand dollars, and I doubt Whitney will send me a complementary ticket, the next best alternative is YOUR review of the program.

: What made it worth the money? What did you learn that's not in a book?

: Also, the fact that you think you've got it made doesn't directly relate to Whitney.

: I know many VERY successful real estate investors who never attended Whitney's seminars. Many investors take college courses, get the Carlton Sheets program, read books, etc. etc.

: I don't think that attending Whitney's seminar will prevent someone from being successful. I just don't believe it's worth the money!

: $82,000 in profits from buying 22 properties doesn't sound like very much. Where exactly did the $82,000 come from? Over what time period? How many hours did you have to work?

: How is it tax free?

: I just sold my house and walked away with tax free cash, but that's because it was my residence for 3 years during the last 5 years of my ownership. I don't know of another way to make tax free money in real estate. How did you do it?

: LOTS of people think they have tax free income when it's really tax *deferred.* I've seen investors who owed more to the IRS after they sold properties than they had in equity.

: It would be great if you could post the addresses of your properties, a brief summary of the transactions, holding times and costs, etc. etc.

: Financing is a key element to success in real estate and I'd sure like to see what kind of mortgages you got at what cost.

: Most of the people interested in the Whitney seminars are broke, that's why they're grasping for straws. They don't QUALIFY for mortgages.

: Your mortgage broker might want to post his E-mail and web site here and explain what he did for you. I'm aware of some legit programs like the 203 (k) loans, but they have limitations, such as maximum loan amounts. In the San Francisco Bay Area you're pretty much limited to condos in the worst areas and some people would rather NOT invest in properties featuring bullet holes. I'm sure prospective investors will greatly appreciate specific financing info.

: As for the cash flow, I'd like to see how you arrive at your NOI and how much you allocate for reserves. Having worked as a mortgage broker, I'm used to people *thinking* they made lots of money when they often made much less.

: You may have heard of Robert Allen, the "no money down" expert. He also bought tons of properties, had lots of cash flow, and then he was bankrupt. There are countless "successful" investors like Robert Allen. Remember Trump and his real estate empire?

: What makes you think you won't be bankrupt in a year or two? What's going to happen when the economy goes bad, or if y2k (or the concern about it) hits, and rents don't come in?

: What are you going to do when real estate values go down and/or interest rates go up and you can't unload property without PAYING to get rid of it?

: We have been enjoying a great economy for many years now and the chances of a down turn are tremendous. How long do YOU think we'll enjoy the low unemployment? Ever think about that?

: I sure do.

: So here are a few words to all the readers who are tempted to get into the real estate business. Because it is impossible to give general advice, as so much depends on each aspiring investor's financial and family situation as well as experience and knowledge, here is MY grand plan:

: I am considering buying some property in AZ. But definitely NOT this year. I'm looking, I'm gathering information, I'm reading, I'm listening, I'm learning and I'm waiting .... Whenever we hit the next recession and real estate values go down, I'll be buying.

: That's my plan, and in time we'll see what happens. My plan might change. Right now I couldn't care less if I never owned another piece of real estate. It's great to be free! Nothing has ever tied me down more than owning property. (I don't have kids.) Owning real estate is very risky and a ton of work! But when I see an opportunity, I'll take it. And occasionally I do miss my yard, being able to plant and landscape.

: In the meantime, some of my cash is with Del Mar Mortgage, a commercial loan brokerage in Vegas. I get between 12.5% and 13.5% interest, and it's deposited into my bank account every month. Of course there is a certain risk, but at least it's NO work. All I have to do is verify that the deposit shows up about the 10th every month when I download my bank transactions. It's a short term investment, everything is due before the end of the year, and I'll be happy when I get my money back. I sure hope I won't end up being a 1/786 owner of a commercial strip mall in Vegas. I'm still contemplating what to do with the cash then.

: Do you know that you may have to answer questions about the intended use of your OWN money when requesting a withdrawal from the bank?

: My money should be available with literally no notice. The easiest way to get a great real estate deal is to be able to close within 5 to 10 days without having to wait for a loan.

: I doubt I'll be looking for rental property. I have no need for plugged toilets, leaking roofs and evictions. I can live without the hassles.

: Maybe I'll get a few acres in the AZ desert, or up in OR, WA or AK. I'll see how I like it up there this Summer. And I hope to have a look at Costa Rica and Belize next Winter.

: If I buy real estate in the US, it'll be my primary RESIDENCE. I wouldn't mind building or doing a remodel, landscaping, etc. and raising the value. Most likely I'll be looking for run down properties. I like the idea of tax free income. Was the tax code changed for the benefit of real estate brokers and contractors? Sure looks like it to me.

: I started investing in real estate by purchasing my RESIDENCE. If things go bad, at least you got a place to live and to hopefully enjoy. Financing is MUCH easier to obtain for your residence, and the terms are so much better, especially with little money down. Even if you only plan on keeping the property for a few month, this works great if you don't have kids, and it is legal.

: However, beware of fixers! I call them SUCKER properties. Some poor sucker can't afford a decent property, and is deceived into thinking it'll just take a little painting and cleaning. NEVER purchase without a professional home inspection. When buying a fixer, be sure to get a discount for twice the cost of the required repairs.

: Well, there's a lot more I could say here and you'll find many of my experiences on the BayHouse web site, the real estate section is quite extensive.

: As far as seminars go, I think they're fine to get motivated, but beware of the techniques. I have heard some SCARY stuff at "introductary" seminars. Every State has their own real estate regs and laws. Especially the no money down techniques are often illegal (silent seconds, etc.) Is it worth jail time?

: I'd say $100 or $200 seems justified for a good course with detailed techniques, contracts, etc.

: There is so MUCH to know about real estate, no one person knows it all. But at least try to learn as much as possible. Listen, read, and VERIFY! Trust no one ....

: Consider getting your real estate license. The MLS is one of the most valuable tools and was THE reason why I became licensed. Too many real estate agents had lied to me and provided me with altered and incomplete data. Knowledge is power!

: Last not least, you'll have to decide HOW successful you want to be. Definitions of SUCCESS vary:

: There are successful slum lords.
: There are successful ruthless investors who won't hesitate to take advantage of ignorant little old ladies and mentally or physically ill sellers or buyers.

: You will be competing with investors lacking any ethics and you will lose deals unless you sink to their level. Distressed sellers will often make a deal with whoever sounds best, regardless of the obvious misrepresentations. I have personally lost many loans because some other broker lied like hell. I don't broker loans anymore. You will find that it is VERY difficult to survive in the real estate business as long as you have scruples.

: LONG TERM success in real estate requires the ability to read and comprehend, listen, learn, plan, and WORK HARD. The lack of money and/or hard work can only be overcome by salesmanship bordering on fraud, lender fraud, deception, or an outside cash source who you then give much of your profits to. And of course you need some good LUCK.

: There are literally hundreds of excellent college courses, books and web sites. I can't think of a single reason to pay Whitney thousands of dollars.

: Hopefully we'll get a detailed response from Bernie, I'd really like to know what made Whitney the key to his perceived success. How did Whitney compare to college courses, books, and of course, other seminars?

: I remember receiving the materials for the $5K or $6K Norris Foreclosure seminars and I'm sure there are others. What's in any of those seminars that's not in a book? Motivation?

: Thanks, Christine

: ----------------------------------------------------------------

: Here are the postings I'm responding to:

: Posted by Reva Stanley on March 14, 1999 at 17:57:01:

: For the past three weeks I have been reading everything everyone wrote about the Russ Whitney course on this website. Good and bad. Now, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do have one question. How many of you that talk about how bad the course is have actually paid for it, taken it, and then tried to do something with it. True, not many success stories show up here, but do you know why? Because Russ' successful students don't have time for message boards because they are too busy working real estate transactions, creating opportunities and making money. What are you doing? Why don't you ask for failure stories. I haven't seen any of those, either. The only way a person can fail at Russ Whitney's course is to not apply what they have learned and persevere until they have reached their goal. What is your goal?

: --------------------------------------------------------------

: According to the description of successful students, Reva is NOT a successful attendee of the Whitney seminar:

"... Russ' successful students don't have time for message boards ...."

: A Whitney employee?

: "Why don't you ask for failure stories."

: I got failure stories coming out of my ears. Didn't you read the postings? I'd rather hear from people who are sucessful though.

: "The only way a person can fail at Russ Whitney's course is to not apply what they have learned and persevere until they have reached their goal."

: Sounds like a paid ad to me.

: Christine

: --------------------------------------------------------------

: Posted by Bernie on February 17, 1999 at 17:47:48:
: In Reply to: NO success stories for Whitney posted by Christine Baker on October 26, 1998 at 00:54:00:

: : Recently, Tom Cobin, Consumer & Investigative Reporter with WAVY-TV "10 On Your Side" asked me to remove his posting from earlier this year.
: : He was trying to locate successful Russ Whitney students. Unfortunately, all he got was lots of E-mail from people wanting to know what he found out.
: : So, that's the beef on Whitney, NO success stories anywhere. Save your money .....
: : Christine

: Well sorry Christine!!

: I do have a success story from taking Russ' course.
: I have purchased 22 properties in the city of Cleveland, Ohio
: and have walked away with over $82,000 in tax-free cash. If you would like the property addresses, I will give them to you to look up!! I have a positive cash flow from these properties of approx 7,200.00 per month. I did fail at first, however. But I did keep trying and followed his tips to a tee. I found an aggressive Realtor who knew where I was coming from. I spent approx 6 months to find him and also a good mortgage broker. But it did pay off. I quit my job within 14 months of buying his course.
: Maybe if you had any courage at all you might even do better that me!! But just as Russ said, there are 20 people that will tell you that it won't work for every 1 person that says it will!!

Follow Ups:

Heaven on Earth? Where IS Reva? Christine Baker 12:21:03 3/20/99 (1)
- Bernie's response: The $82k are a loan, not income, and my follow-up Christine Baker 14:41:29 3/26/99 (0)

Post a Followup

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Comments:
: Wow, Christine! You were really hard on us. You know, my husband and I submitted a written offer on a house this week. Nothing we did was unethical, immoral, illegal, undisclosed, we did not attempt to take advantage of anybody or to cheat anyone. Nor do I feel that we will lose out on deals without having the above qualities. Our goal as far as making money is this: to be debt free (not counting income producing assets), to be able to care for our family, and to be able to help others. There is a family at our church who will be leaving to go to a third world country as missionairies soon. How great it would be to sell a house that we had worked on and be able to send extra money to help them. Thats what its all about anyway. Is helping each other and being fair to others. The Russ Whitney course does not teach any of the requirements you stated for success. What the course taught me is that I can do whatever I set my mind to. I went into that seminar thinking of all the things I couldn't do and came out realizing just how much I can do. I was taught that it is important to be honest and fair. I discovered this message board prior to attending the three day training camp. I read all the messages about Russ Whitney. I was trying hard to learn what I was getting myself into. We had already paid to go. But nothing I read here even came close to what all I learned. It was, in my opinion, worth everything we spent to go. I don't get as much time nowadays to browse the net like I used to. But I will come back with updates from time to time as we progress in our venture of real estate investing. And by the way, its alot of fun and we are having a blast.

: : This is my response to the Whitney "success story" by Bernie and Reva Stanley's posting, included at the end.

: : Bernie,

: : Of course it would be best if I attended Whitney's seminar myself to see what's to it. But as I'm not about to waste several thousand dollars, and I doubt Whitney will send me a complementary ticket, the next best alternative is YOUR review of the program.

: : What made it worth the money? What did you learn that's not in a book?

: : Also, the fact that you think you've got it made doesn't directly relate to Whitney.

: : I know many VERY successful real estate investors who never attended Whitney's seminars. Many investors take college courses, get the Carlton Sheets program, read books, etc. etc.

: : I don't think that attending Whitney's seminar will prevent someone from being successful. I just don't believe it's worth the money!

: : $82,000 in profits from buying 22 properties doesn't sound like very much. Where exactly did the $82,000 come from? Over what time period? How many hours did you have to work?

: : How is it tax free?

: : I just sold my house and walked away with tax free cash, but that's because it was my residence for 3 years during the last 5 years of my ownership. I don't know of another way to make tax free money in real estate. How did you do it?

: : LOTS of people think they have tax free income when it's really tax *deferred.* I've seen investors who owed more to the IRS after they sold properties than they had in equity.

: : It would be great if you could post the addresses of your properties, a brief summary of the transactions, holding times and costs, etc. etc.

: : Financing is a key element to success in real estate and I'd sure like to see what kind of mortgages you got at what cost.

: : Most of the people interested in the Whitney seminars are broke, that's why they're grasping for straws. They don't QUALIFY for mortgages.

: : Your mortgage broker might want to post his E-mail and web site here and explain what he did for you. I'm aware of some legit programs like the 203 (k) loans, but they have limitations, such as maximum loan amounts. In the San Francisco Bay Area you're pretty much limited to condos in the worst areas and some people would rather NOT invest in properties featuring bullet holes. I'm sure prospective investors will greatly appreciate specific financing info.

: : As for the cash flow, I'd like to see how you arrive at your NOI and how much you allocate for reserves. Having worked as a mortgage broker, I'm used to people *thinking* they made lots of money when they often made much less.

: : You may have heard of Robert Allen, the "no money down" expert. He also bought tons of properties, had lots of cash flow, and then he was bankrupt. There are countless "successful" investors like Robert Allen. Remember Trump and his real estate empire?

: : What makes you think you won't be bankrupt in a year or two? What's going to happen when the economy goes bad, or if y2k (or the concern about it) hits, and rents don't come in?

: : What are you going to do when real estate values go down and/or interest rates go up and you can't unload property without PAYING to get rid of it?

: : We have been enjoying a great economy for many years now and the chances of a down turn are tremendous. How long do YOU think we'll enjoy the low unemployment? Ever think about that?

: : I sure do.

: : So here are a few words to all the readers who are tempted to get into the real estate business. Because it is impossible to give general advice, as so much depends on each aspiring investor's financial and family situation as well as experience and knowledge, here is MY grand plan:

: : I am considering buying some property in AZ. But definitely NOT this year. I'm looking, I'm gathering information, I'm reading, I'm listening, I'm learning and I'm waiting .... Whenever we hit the next recession and real estate values go down, I'll be buying.

: : That's my plan, and in time we'll see what happens. My plan might change. Right now I couldn't care less if I never owned another piece of real estate. It's great to be free! Nothing has ever tied me down more than owning property. (I don't have kids.) Owning real estate is very risky and a ton of work! But when I see an opportunity, I'll take it. And occasionally I do miss my yard, being able to plant and landscape.

: : In the meantime, some of my cash is with Del Mar Mortgage, a commercial loan brokerage in Vegas. I get between 12.5% and 13.5% interest, and it's deposited into my bank account every month. Of course there is a certain risk, but at least it's NO work. All I have to do is verify that the deposit shows up about the 10th every month when I download my bank transactions. It's a short term investment, everything is due before the end of the year, and I'll be happy when I get my money back. I sure hope I won't end up being a 1/786 owner of a commercial strip mall in Vegas. I'm still contemplating what to do with the cash then.

: : Do you know that you may have to answer questions about the intended use of your OWN money when requesting a withdrawal from the bank?

: : My money should be available with literally no notice. The easiest way to get a great real estate deal is to be able to close within 5 to 10 days without having to wait for a loan.

: : I doubt I'll be looking for rental property. I have no need for plugged toilets, leaking roofs and evictions. I can live without the hassles.

: : Maybe I'll get a few acres in the AZ desert, or up in OR, WA or AK. I'll see how I like it up there this Summer. And I hope to have a look at Costa Rica and Belize next Winter.

: : If I buy real estate in the US, it'll be my primary RESIDENCE. I wouldn't mind building or doing a remodel, landscaping, etc. and raising the value. Most likely I'll be looking for run down properties. I like the idea of tax free income. Was the tax code changed for the benefit of real estate brokers and contractors? Sure looks like it to me.

: : I started investing in real estate by purchasing my RESIDENCE. If things go bad, at least you got a place to live and to hopefully enjoy. Financing is MUCH easier to obtain for your residence, and the terms are so much better, especially with little money down. Even if you only plan on keeping the property for a few month, this works great if you don't have kids, and it is legal.

: : However, beware of fixers! I call them SUCKER properties. Some poor sucker can't afford a decent property, and is deceived into thinking it'll just take a little painting and cleaning. NEVER purchase without a professional home inspection. When buying a fixer, be sure to get a discount for twice the cost of the required repairs.

: : Well, there's a lot more I could say here and you'll find many of my experiences on the BayHouse web site, the real estate section is quite extensive.

: : As far as seminars go, I think they're fine to get motivated, but beware of the techniques. I have heard some SCARY stuff at "introductary" seminars. Every State has their own real estate regs and laws. Especially the no money down techniques are often illegal (silent seconds, etc.) Is it worth jail time?

: : I'd say $100 or $200 seems justified for a good course with detailed techniques, contracts, etc.

: : There is so MUCH to know about real estate, no one person knows it all. But at least try to learn as much as possible. Listen, read, and VERIFY! Trust no one ....

: : Consider getting your real estate license. The MLS is one of the most valuable tools and was THE reason why I became licensed. Too many real estate agents had lied to me and provided me with altered and incomplete data. Knowledge is power!

: : Last not least, you'll have to decide HOW successful you want to be. Definitions of SUCCESS vary:

: : There are successful slum lords.
: : There are successful ruthless investors who won't hesitate to take advantage of ignorant little old ladies and mentally or physically ill sellers or buyers.

: : You will be competing with investors lacking any ethics and you will lose deals unless you sink to their level. Distressed sellers will often make a deal with whoever sounds best, regardless of the obvious misrepresentations. I have personally lost many loans because some other broker lied like hell. I don't broker loans anymore. You will find that it is VERY difficult to survive in the real estate business as long as you have scruples.

: : LONG TERM success in real estate requires the ability to read and comprehend, listen, learn, plan, and WORK HARD. The lack of money and/or hard work can only be overcome by salesmanship bordering on fraud, lender fraud, deception, or an outside cash source who you then give much of your profits to. And of course you need some good LUCK.

: : There are literally hundreds of excellent college courses, books and web sites. I can't think of a single reason to pay Whitney thousands of dollars.

: : Hopefully we'll get a detailed response from Bernie, I'd really like to know what made Whitney the key to his perceived success. How did Whitney compare to college courses, books, and of course, other seminars?

: : I remember receiving the materials for the $5K or $6K Norris Foreclosure seminars and I'm sure there are others. What's in any of those seminars that's not in a book? Motivation?

: : Thanks, Christine

: : ----------------------------------------------------------------

: : Here are the postings I'm responding to:

: : Posted by Reva Stanley on March 14, 1999 at 17:57:01:

: : For the past three weeks I have been reading everything everyone wrote about the Russ Whitney course on this website. Good and bad. Now, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do have one question. How many of you that talk about how bad the course is have actually paid for it, taken it, and then tried to do something with it. True, not many success stories show up here, but do you know why? Because Russ' successful students don't have time for message boards because they are too busy working real estate transactions, creating opportunities and making money. What are you doing? Why don't you ask for failure stories. I haven't seen any of those, either. The only way a person can fail at Russ Whitney's course is to not apply what they have learned and persevere until they have reached their goal. What is your goal?

: : --------------------------------------------------------------

: : According to the description of successful students, Reva is NOT a successful attendee of the Whitney seminar:

: "... Russ' successful students don't have time for message boards ...."

: : A Whitney employee?

: : "Why don't you ask for failure stories."

: : I got failure stories coming out of my ears. Didn't you read the postings? I'd rather hear from people who are sucessful though.

: : "The only way a person can fail at Russ Whitney's course is to not apply what they have learned and persevere until they have reached their goal."

: : Sounds like a paid ad to me.

: : Christine

: : --------------------------------------------------------------

: : Posted by Bernie on February 17, 1999 at 17:47:48:
: : In Reply to: NO success stories for Whitney posted by Christine Baker on October 26, 1998 at 00:54:00:

: : : Recently, Tom Cobin, Consumer & Investigative Reporter with WAVY-TV "10 On Your Side" asked me to remove his posting from earlier this year.
: : : He was trying to locate successful Russ Whitney students. Unfortunately, all he got was lots of E-mail from people wanting to know what he found out.
: : : So, that's the beef on Whitney, NO success stories anywhere. Save your money .....
: : : Christine

: : Well sorry Christine!!

: : I do have a success story from taking Russ' course.
: : I have purchased 22 properties in the city of Cleveland, Ohio
: : and have walked away with over $82,000 in tax-free cash. If you would like the property addresses, I will give them to you to look up!! I have a positive cash flow from these properties of approx 7,200.00 per month. I did fail at first, however. But I did keep trying and followed his tips to a tee. I found an aggressive Realtor who knew where I was coming from. I spent approx 6 months to find him and also a good mortgage broker. But it did pay off. I quit my job within 14 months of buying his course.
: : Maybe if you had any courage at all you might even do better that me!! But just as Russ said, there are 20 people that will tell you that it won't work for every 1 person that says it will!!

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