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     | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 03:24 am  Well, I for one am sorry to see you go. I started the process of trying to rebuild and repair my credit about six months ago, and have really learned a great deal from this site. Using the information that I have gathered here, I have made some pretty great strides in repairing the credit problems that I created for myself years ago, as well as some additional problems that the CRA's created for me. Anyway..I guess I can't say that I blame you. Rcb and Seans determination to monopolize this board have really detracted from it. I find myself wondering, how could these two possibly have enough time to do all this posting??? Christine, I would ask you to reconsider and keep the board going. Although I have never posted before, I have found this a great resource and hate to see it go. I wouldn't mind however, Rcb (and I know that I am not the only one), if YOU would go. Thanks.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 04:52 am Jennifer: Just because Sean and I didn't despise and loathe the CRA's and generally, agree with Christine's opinions doesn't mean that we 'monopolized the board'. We just presented all sides of the issues, not just one. And nobody ever said that we were always right. Has EVERYBODY that's ever posted on this site EVER been wrong, other than me? Sure, but Christine didn't attack them and shut the board down because of all the other 'stapo-sed "misinformation" (read as a Tim Meadows impersonation of O.J. Simpson). In fact, I've just about ALWAYS included something like "this is only my personal opinion" or "this is only based on my personal experiences" with my posts here. So for someone to claim that I'm just sitting back and providing false information is, plain and simple, a liar. Bayhouse is a great resource. It helped me over the past couple of years to go from bad to A+. And when I started Bielak's Consumer Credit Information Center just recently, Bayhouse was the FIRST link to another CC site I put on there. I respect Christine for her cause, I just do not respect her for the manner in which she treats anyone that is not part of the 'inner circle' and those who actually have the gonads to stand up and say that they disagree and why. Sure, Jennifer, you may not be "the only one" to want me to go, but I'd certainly like some of the "others" to say so, just so long as they're not part of the usual suspect in the CB Gang.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 05:50 am RCB, I am an 'other'. Too much noise. Sean, If it wasn't for your postings, I would not have my house right now. Christine, Understand frustrations, sorry about bad apples, shouldn't let undermine basic good positive effect of this site. It has helped me, and I am sure that there are thousands more.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 07:05 am I too agree with Christin and Don, and I will the another "other". Sean I have found your comments informative. Christine, I hope that you will reconsider.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 08:35 am Christine: I too hope you reconsider. Your site allows consumers to speak out and be heard as well as become informed. I agree with you that Sean and rcb are frustrating, as they refuse to both listen to reason or accept others opinions and the proof they offer while attempting to be heard. Consumers want to discuss the issues, gain knowledge and need to unite to gain attention to our quest for better consumer protection laws and enforcement. Your site has been an invaluable source for all of us. I do understand your frustration but do hope you won't allow them to win. Thanks Christine for all your efforts and hard work in helping all of us! If you stand by your decision, I will understand and respect your decision, I just want you to know there are innumerable consumers that you have helped enormously!
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 09:17 am Are you ignorant or do you not read the messages posted in these forums? There are no winners and losers - this is NOT a contest! You read a little boo-hoo letter (forget about the actual content posted throughout the site) and you're jumping on a (small) bandwangon that doesn't even really exist! I have, over and over given credit to Bayhouse and Christine about all the help she's provided. I made Bayhouse my first link on my new consumer credit site. But I will NOT accept being treated differently than others who have made mistakes when posting information simply because I don't agree with the site owner! You said: Your site allows consumers to speak out and be heard as well as become informed, yet the owner of this site said ...I DON'T want to hear about YOUR experiences with the CRAs or anyone else. I simply couldn't care less. And no, I also DON'T want to hear from the millions of people who also were able to get through. I DON'T CARE!! Now does THAT sound like, as YOU stated, this site allowing consumers to speak out and be heard? Hell no it doesn't. Where are you coming from? I don't loathe the CRA's. They are, like it or not, part of the consumer credit industry and everyone, including YOU, will have to deal with them if you choose to attempt to obtain credit. And when someone posts that the CRA should bow down and kiss her a$$ just because they have "HER" information (not speaking of Christine here) and they're making billions of dollars from it, I DO NOT have to "accept others opinions and the proof" as, again, YOU stated. Now hit the little back button in your browser and count up all of {as Christine put it) "... Rcb's advice is sometimes outright wrong ... Find one, please, that isn't included with an "I'm not for certain" or "this is only my opinion" or the word (this is a big one, so read very slowly) D-I-S-C-L-A-I-M-E-R. I have never claimed to be an expert. So those who want to badmouth me on their websites by calling me a "wannabe expert" can just shove it where the sun doesn't shine. The problem is, though, I do know more than 98% of the people that will ever log onto this site. Go count up the posts of mine with people confirming my opinions. There are plenty. But you'll also notice many that I've answered in part, only to conclude with something to the effect of " ... but I'm not sure on that part. You'll have to ask someone who knows about it". I'm no expert, but I certainly didn't deserve being treated the way I was by the owner of this site, simply because I did not hold the same contemptuous and disdainful feelings for the CRA as she. Robert Bielak Bielak's Consumer Credit Information Center
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 09:32 am well, you have had a certain level of nastiness in your posts, Rcb. One particular tidbit had you asking someone who pissed in their breakfast cereal. Anyway... how bout you and Christine both LET IT GO.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 09:37 am If you didn't notice it, Anonymous, that was after I was told that a certain somebody didn't care about my experiences nor the millions of others who had good experiences in dealing with the CRA's ... And it would be much easier to LET IT GO if a certain somebody didn't play games and call me names in her opening message to the forums ...
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 10:34 am rcb: Can you use a calculator? There are 6 billion people on this planet. Let's say only .01% posts here 5 times a day to share their credit experiences. What's the daily number of postings here? They called Experian today, and they got through. They applied for a loan, they got approved. They got their credit report, and there were no errors .... I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO READ IT! Ever notice that the news doesn't report on every person that wasn't murdered, they don't mention every driver who wasn't in a wreck, and they don't report on every town that didn't suffer a flood or hurricane? Rcb, can you guess WHY? And I CERTAINLY don't want anyone who is NOT an expert to continually post. Anyone who posts a lot will be considered an expert by the casual visitor. I've gone through tremendous trouble to have a board with MANY customizable search features as well as E-mail notification for select topics. I believe that people should NOT have to spend many hours reading here just to find out who is qualified to advise. That's what I didn't like about the newsgroups, the rcbs of the net. People who can't shut up. As I am NOT making a penny off this site, I don't want to have to spend 5 hours a day arguing with rcb and following up on his bad advice. Anyone is welcome to post their opinion about this Forum. There's a special section "Problems? Comments on the Forum?" Post there once, or even twice, no problem. Why won't people shut up when asked? I have the right to pay for this service, to spend endless nights keeping the Forum working. But rcb has the RIGHT to post here? His buddy Lockwood felt that same way. Which amendment gives rcb the right to post here? WTF is going on?
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 10:43 am Christine has done a wonderful service here, but she sure has a nasty temperment. She has a right to her opinion, but considers everyone who disagrees with her a moron or a liar. Phrases like "pissed in their breakfast cereal" are nothing compared to the tirades that Christine has shown. And most of the people she has attacked have taken her anger very well. If this site goes down, I will miss the great posts and yes, Christine's knowledge--although the person herself needs some work.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 10:50 am I just don’t understand how RCB has time to work. He must spend every waking minute here answering every single question that anyone has. The average person visiting for the first time will see him as the expert. I don't care who says what, freedom of speech but continuous posting day after day, minute after minute is too much. You just got married, don’t you have a life? What about your forum? Post over there and bug the crap out of yourself! Christine: I do not blame you; he is overbearing and will never stop. I don't even see how Sean has so much time to post, doesn’t he work? At least with Sean he is in the field and has some expertise although I think he rambles on and on. Just my two cents:) And yes, I did not post my name because I will have to hear RCB go on forever, so call me a coward for anon. I just don’t want to hear your BS!
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 12:16 pm I totally agree with Christine and want to see rcb postings come to an end. I do want to note however, that I would like to see Sean banned as well. Sean is even more erroneous than rcb in his posting, the things he says are way out in left field. What field is in he in that he has expertise? Give us a break. He knows zero about mortgage lending and credit laws to start. And I think the nastiness crown goes to Sean. I, too am posting anonymously so I won't be viciously attacked. Three Cheers to Christine for her heroic efforts.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 05:51 pm I understand exactly where Christine is coming from, and this is why: RCB wrote that he has had very few problems getting through to the credit bureaus and has found it easy to have inaccurate information corrected. What's wrong with that? Consider the context in which his comments were made. He was responding directly to a statement made by another person who said that the difficulty of correcting inaccurate data is compounded by frequent busy signals. He was attempting to disprove the truthful assertion that there is a real problem with busy signals at the credit bureaus and that it is difficult to get inaccurate information corrected. What message does that send to all the people who have been subjected to perpetual busy signals and stonewalling? People who have experienced these problems would ask themselves "Is he saying that I'm lying about the busy signals or is he saying that it is all my fault because I didn't handle the situation properly?" [His comment about "bitching and swearing" at credit bureau service reps probably added fuel to the fire.] Christine lost several thousand dollars due to credit bureau busy signals. Can you imagine how she must have felt when she read RCB's implication that the problem of busy signals at the credit bureaus is trivial?? RCB cited his experience of making over 100 calls to the bureaus and only getting a busy signal 2 or 3 times. The reason he cited his personal experience was to convince people that the problem of busy signals at the credit bureaus is minimal. That is not true. If it were, the FTC would not have received thousands of complaints. Plus, the FTC wouldn't have filed a consent order if the rate of busy signals were only about 2-3%. Perhaps this has a lot to do with why Christine asked RCB to stop posting on her forum.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 05:55 pm Test2: The answer is 300 million posts. So what's your point? It's not respective of the issue - attacks against users than don't agree. As I am NOT making a penny off this site, I don't want to have to spend 5 hours a day arguing with rcb and following up on his bad advice. Please - Quote my bad advice here: [] (hint: that's all the space you'll need. Anon: I just don’t understand how RCB has time to work There's no need for you to understand. Those of us gainfully employed and with careers that allow us to spend our time as we wish and making our own schedules would never understand if we tried to explain it. I don't care who says what, freedom of speech but continuous posting day after day, minute after minute is too much. And who died and made you God? Sean is even more erroneous than rcb in his posting Go ahead - seriously: quote some of my "erroneous postings". I, too am posting anonymously so I won't be viciously attacked Please: quote my vicious, unprovoked attacks. And, yes, I sign my name because I have no problem standing behind what I say. Robert Bielak BCCIC
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 06:43 pm Barbara: I just love how you take things out of context and point the finger: He was attempting to disprove the truthful assertion that there is a real problem with busy signals at the credit bureaus and that it is difficult to get inaccurate information corrected. I was only conveying MY experiences with the CRA's. The poster's comment of ... Constant busy signals and an inability to speak to a human only complicates matters... would lead the causal user to belive that NOBODY can ever get through (so don't bother) and you NEVER get to talk to a human (everything is voicemail). Now is that the truth? Somebody might read than and not bother calling, which can delay their efforts. The reason he cited his personal experience was to convince people that the problem of busy signals at the credit bureaus is minimal Absolutely not. I was merely pointing out that it was NOT the NORMAL thing to expect (the busy signals). You're pretty good at trying to twist things around, Barbara. Why did you not bother quoting the first line of that very same message: Your points are all well taken. Actually, I agree to a high degree with most of them. Ohhhh, no. Don't tell anyone that rcb wrote that. It might make rcb look reasonable, not the vindictive, spiteful, malevolent, erroneous disrespectful ass that you're attempting to make him out to be. What, do I have to say I DON'T want to hear about YOUR experiences with the CRAs or anyone else. I simply couldn't care less. And no, I also DON'T want to hear from the millions of people who also were able to get through. I DON'T CARE!! before somebody gives me a little respect around here? Oh, and the second part of your claim: ... disprove the truthful assertion that ... it is difficult to get inaccurate information corrected. When, please WHEN and WHERE did I ever state or incinuate that ?? Please expound! Christine lost several thousand dollars due to credit bureau busy signals Okay, I give up. How do you loose several thousand dollars waiting on hold on a toll free number (every credit report I've gotten from the Big 3 in the past three years has a toll free number right on it). I searched this entire site for "busy signal" and came up with one post by Christine regarding her 'busy signal' losses: Last winter I stood at a pay phone in northern Arizona for a LOOOOONG time, freezing, until I was disconnected by Check Systems (Experian.) I couldn't open a bank account, had to drive to California to find out that Home Savings INCORRECTLY reported just under $17 as owed on a closed checking account She drove to California, according to her post, to deal with the SUBSCRIBER, not the bureau. And if she spent thousands in a pay phone and for gas to drive from AZ to CA and back, then somebody was seriously overcharging her for fuel. Then again, why did she have to drive to CA? Everything can be handled over the phone and a fax machine and the post office these days. Which goes right back to the exact reason for the topic that I created: Who's really to blame?. Sounds to me like the SUBSCRIBER reported an error, which was the root of her problem. I give up. You all win. You can play your games and I'll just watch as you make false allegations and claims about my "erroneous information" that I provide - because not a ONE of you 'inner circlers' have provided proof of a single instance of purposeful ignorance by me. rcb BCCIC - come on over and make an ass out of yourself - we DON'T CARE (oops - that line has already been used here).
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 08:34 pm You know rob, I have been on this forum for about a year, trying to get my credit fixed. Using the information here, bad or good has been beneficial in educating my attack. People being people, I can understand squables back and forth, but there is a limit and you certainly have crossed it. I am not on here to read about your self promotions, but to engage in dialogue. I have dealt with types like you, and your insecurities are showing. I am Computer Consultant not what you term is a system's analyst (fancer term for programmer) in the midwest, but your no god because they hand you coding assignments. Anyone with the intelligence of a 16 year old can work today's technology so deflate that ego of yours. Being in the cube all day, typing away, can get frustrating since you can't voice an opinion robot, you thus must make it known here. Give the girl some latitude, she is trying and your attempts to derail the business in order to promote your own is totally low down and dirty. For some one who just got married its hard to believe that you call yourself a man. Take the higher road, you sound childish, going over each point like some kid trying to reason with mommie or daddie. What can you accomplish by riping and tearing down what this woman has built up. Your site wouldn't be in existance, if it wasn't for her. Your couldn't advertise for free on here your "expert site". Did you ever think of the idea first? Or did it take someone like Christine to carry you in creating your website. This ego of yours because you can read a technical manual from microsoft and use a mouse is laughable. Clearly its confusing your senses since you get your jolly's berating whomever you please. Your "wife" should be embarrassed, she married a child.
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| | Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 08:59 pm Nick - Computer Consultant - yes, jack of a few trades, master of none. You're self-proclaimed title means that you don't have the intelligence to program, so you try to fake it by facilitating - things a novice can do by taking a few business courses at the local community college. I am a Programmer and Web Development Consultant - a MENTOR to the entire application programming community at one of the Big 3 auto manufacturers. Not only can I program, but I have a wall full of awards for my excellence in integration, project planning, networking, DBA functions, development & programming, mentoring, product evaluations, standards & guidelines determination, hardware and software procurement, LAN/WAN design, installation, maintenance and administration on more platforms than you have fingers and toes - hell, I could go on and on, but you wouldn't be able to follow because I've forgotten more than you'll probably ever know. I have literally dozens of professional and personal references from people in high places at Microsoft, IBM and several other "real companies" (unlike your's, probably). So sit down, shut up and don't say a word until you know who you are talking about. I will not be attacked, totally out of context and totally out of topic, by morons like you. My site would't be in existance without here? Pffft! What kind of moronic statement was that? My site is/was the inspiration of MANY things, including Bayhouse. But that doesn't mean that it "wouldn't be in existence without her". I've been utilizing the internet years and years and years before bozo's like you got your little fingers on your B-R-O-W-S-E-R. Post on the topic, Nick, or stay away. At least when everybody else on here disagrees, we argue about the TOPIC.
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| | Wednesday, February 09, 2000 - 03:08 pm I'm not sure what the topic is anymore, so I might be guilty of deviating. Apparently I'm paid to fight and be nasty. Even though I'm only 7 years in, I've come to feel that if I am not being paid to be negative, then it is not worth being negative. Materialistic? Maybe. But there should be some sort of reason for doing something that is both bad for your health and hurtful/annoying to others. At least money is better than sadism. I am sure that some of you dislike me. It's the nature of people to hate. And I post too often and too long. And maybe I even sound like a VW bus-driving flower child. But consider this. We all hate to be pre-judged, yet we have all pre-judged someone. We hate being cut off in traffic, but we have all cut someone off in traffic. The things that many of us carp on about others are things that we have ourselves been guilty of, or may be guilty of in the future. If you want to be judged gently for your errors (past, present, future), it would be hypocritical if you did not judge others gently. Nobody has committed murder on this board. We've all done things "wrong". But the only thing that is really wrong is to fail to accept that truth. The egos and cantankerous personalities that I encounter here are as bad as any of the attorneys that I meet. I know that it is an ugly statement to make, but a few of you could pass for attorneys. Think about what you hate about lawyers. Now stop, be open minded, rather than defensive, and read some of these posts. I start trouble and I joke around in the middle of serious posts. I'm sure that a number of you sigh, or shake your heads in disgust. I know that I do. Why can't it end there? With the sarcasm that I see oozing off the posts it is hard for me to imagine that the poster gets offline with a smile for the spouse and a pat on the head for the family dog. If you are such a person, how do you benefit? You cannot hope to change another person's mind when you are attacking their character and insulting them. SO what is the goal? Just for the heck of it, how about we stop attacking each other and agreeing that this person or that person is a jerk. Someone might do it to you later on. Don't join the sect who hates Sean but not RCB, or the one that hates RCB but not Christine. There is no need to validate someone else's dislike of someone else. Neither is there a reason to care and get upset if someone dislike you. I'm not self-actualized. I care. But I know that it is stupid for me to do so. We are not in high school and there is no cool crowd. Or you could always just join the fraternity of people who hate Voigtkampff. Sigh.
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| | Wednesday, February 09, 2000 - 06:20 pm Rob, your like the fat fish who just got hooked. *S* Thanks, I expected as much. sucker.. *LOL*
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| | Thursday, February 10, 2000 - 02:32 am Voigtkampff (and all): Let me be the first to say that Voig is absolutely correct. I can't speak for everybody else, but I (and we) have been acting like asses. Maybe there's a bug in the air, maybe there are just bugs up our butts. Regardless, we're supposed to be here to help, not argue. I graciously offer my apologies to Christine, Barbara and the rest of the users that have been subjected to our childish behavior. Yes, I can admit it, but whether or not others that have "participated" or simply fueled the fires can be as mature is up to each of them. Life is a funny thing. You can go like hell in one direction without realizing what's really going on around you, until one day it takes someone like Voigtkampff to make you realize that your efforts can be better spent doing constructive things. Thanks, V. Again, Barbara, Christine & others - my apologies for my behavior. This is no admission of guilt (such as "this is all my fault"), but an apology for my actions. I, as everyone else, will always be a threat to make statements that others don't agree with or label as "erroneous", even if they are only incorrect in that person's eyes. Unless you shut the site down or ban me from posting, I will continue to offer my advice here to those looking for assistance. I only ask that, if (and when) I make statements that you don't agree with, please don't let loose with a load of "I don't care about you or the others' experiences". \b(That}, in my opinion, was and is very unprofessional and antagonistic. And I, too, will learn to say that it's okay if you say ta-may-toe and I say ta-mah-toe. Nick - Sorry. Sometimes I put my mouth into gear before I engage the brain. I don't take kindly to being personally attacked, especially by someone who's been outside of the conversation, and sometimes I just "get suckered" and lash back instead of ignoring it or addressing it differently. You're probably a nice guy looking for advice and just couldn't help yourself. Yes, most people will take a side without knowing the history. Atleast, those other than Voigtkampff (the wise one). :) The Bayhouse forums are a great resource for those looking for advice. If Christine decides to shut it down as she has threatened so many times before, then it will a loss to everybody. You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all the time but never all of the people all of the time. Robert Bielak Bielak's Consumer Credit Information Center
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| | Thursday, February 10, 2000 - 04:37 am Voigtkampff: You are one of the highlights of this forum. Glad to see you haven't gone away. Mr. Bielak: Ouch!
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| | Thursday, February 10, 2000 - 07:41 am Voit: A true man, you are. I agree whole-heartedly with your analogy of what has been going on. Christine has given many people hope where there once was none. All of us have opinions, so lets just let that be. Maybe from now on, none of us will allow others to claim we are "Experts", nor shall we claim that ourselves, so there is no confusion, but rather just people trying to get answers and help one another. That is what is so great about us, were all different and can all learn from each other.. Kristi Feathers Carreon & Associates
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| | Thursday, February 10, 2000 - 04:29 pm RCB: Remember if you FEED the Troll's, you have to take them home and care for them! NICK: Nice Troll! Are you William Scott Lockwood III by any chance?
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| | Friday, February 11, 2000 - 02:28 pm Hey, I'd just like to say that Kristi (with the fine name), expressed, I would also like to state never said I was an expert on the topic of credit (although I know a little). I just respond to questions the information I've heard and read (and believe to be true). I'm also coming here to learn from everyone else. It helps me keep up on the credit world. Although I get income from my site, it is just a hobby for me, a link to the past from my experiences as ex-mortgage broker. The information I have has been about 4 years in the gathering. I like getting my opinions challenged, and even losing arguments, cause it means I've learned something. I try to publish as accurate information as possible, although, since I've written every word, it does reflect my opinion from time to time. The Bayhouse forums not only are informative, but really fun, I've kept coming back over and over again.
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| | Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 05:52 pm I am a novice trying to make up for college stupidity....and have endured the childishness and pettiness displayed here because intermingled between the ego assaults was good information usually provided by people who have gone through this before. I recognize those who work in the industry from those trying to help themselves out of credit trouble from those who's purpose is to prove others wrong. Please stop taking personal offense about what some of the posters have written because it is different from yours. Please, the different experiences show the gamut of experiences that are to be had when undertaking the work required to repair your credit. If someone reads long enough, they will realize the different "camps" or different opinions on how /what to do. There is alot of good information to be learned from those you disagree with. By stooping to the level of attacking the person you disagree with, you reduce your personal credibility.
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